Appendix I-b-3: Transcript 3

Transcript No. 3


Digital Library 1

1.1. Exploration 1 begins at 00:00:19

<Opens Internet Explorer>

(And I’ll keep track of time. When there are 2 minutes, I will let you know.)

<Favorites. Enters LOC>



(Can I ask you to be louder?)

It said there were search results but I haven’t typed anything in there.

(Yes, and that is a very important feedback so we don’t lose that. That’s why I asked you.)

we < Headings. Wrap to top> [chime]

<Headings> 1 to 40 of 295 responses but I haven’t typed anything in yet so I’m not sure what that means or why that’s there.

<Arrows down> Looks like it starts out with alphabetized since these are all As. Maybe that’s just the default. It’s all As so maybe that’s why…so I see the formats here, this is what you mean by formats, you’ve got manuscripts, prints and photographs, digital collections, music…so those are different formats that I might find I guess.

<Arrows down. Wrap to top> [chime] I’ll just type in a search term and see what I get. <Enters search edit box> [beep] <Types ‘Thomas jefferson’. Tab. Enter>


<Headings> Only 16 so…

<Arrows down. Enters View combo box. Chooses List. Tab. Enter>

(Keep talking.)

I was looking at the combo box and it looks like the views can be shown in different ways, lists, grids, gallery, I’m not sure what that is but it sounds more like pictures so I avoided that one because I suspect if it’s pictures it won’t do me a lot of good but lists I like better than grids because sometimes I forget to go right to left instead of just up and down. If that’s what that means, which I think it does.

<Headings> Smart navigation is what I was telling you about and it is in 17 so it was off though. But if you turn it on, I’ll just turn it on for fun.

<Smart navigation on> You have 2 choices, controls and tables and off. Now if I up and down arrow…you see now you hear all of that on one line, that’s what it actually is on the page, but if you have it off you up and down arrow through that and it doesn’t always matter except it does sometimes make things a bit shorter if you’re arrowing through something that has a lot of choices in it and the trick is to remember that it’s on because if you don’t do that and if there’s a link off to the right side you can forget it’s over there. But it was off to start with.

<Arrows down> See the list. The Go button are on the same line, which…

<Smart navigation off> I bet those are on the same line too but…anyway, that’s just a JAWS thing. That doesn’t have anything to do with this except it does have to do with how someone might interact with this on other websites. And it can be a little tricky where you have if a link is to the right of something and you don’t remember that it is, you have to use your tab key or your unvisited or visited link key to get there. So that’s why I was curious. I didn’t remember but it is in JAWS 17 here. Okay, I don’t know how long I’ve taken but I think I could probably look at this task. I suspect.

<Alt Tab to instructions>

(Sorry, can I interrupt? You had started searching for Thomas Jefferson.)

Yeah, just because it said to try the search feature so I did.

(Could you spend a little more time in taking a look at results just because we have some time.)

Yeah. <Alt Tab to DL. Headings> I’m looking at the different thigns they have and apparently what you’ve got is this is how many things we have, the first one is American History, there’s 14 of those apparently if I open that up, I suspect. Government has 10. 5 of these military. Portraits. Performing art, that’s interesting.

<Arrows down> That’s probably of maybe his house, I suppose.

<Arrows down> 9 manuscripts. What I don’t know….

<Enters manuscripts division>


I’m going to the manuscripts division.

<Headings. Arrows down> I’m going to see…Now what I don’t know is if I open one of these..I’ll open this.

<Enter> I’ll open this because I’m curious to see if this is going to bring up an image which I can’t read or if it’s going to actually be text. Because if these are actual images of his writing, I can’t read that.

<Headings. Arrows down> Okay, now so far I have not…

<Wrap to top> [chime]

<Arrows down> Okay, so I’m in the manuscript division. Digital collections…

<Arrows down> Oh I see my problem, that wasn’t a link. This is a link.

<Enters Thomas Jefferson Papers collection link>


Now let’s see what I got.

<Arrows down> Alright, I’ll just open up the articles and essays.

<Enters Articles and essays>


<Headings> I’m hitting the H key to go to headings to go past the things I don’t need. <Arrows down> Okay, I’ll go to the timeline and see… <Enters Timeline>


I’m looking to get to the actual documents if I can but I suppose I can but…

<Headings. Wrap to top> [chime] I’m just seeing what the headings are to see where…<Headings>

(That’s your 10 minutes.)


Exploration 1 ends at 00:10:36


1.2. Post-interview begins at 00:10:46

(Tell me approach to get familiar with this DL?)

Well, as I generally do with most websites when I first see them, I try to see what layouts they have, like if they have heading levels. And that’s what I did, I just jumped to the different headings. I noticed right off there was a search box, first thing at the top. But I like to hit the headings to see what the big divisions are and then when I find one of those which I think may be useful to me, I look at the links under there and see. I also try to see things like the combo boxes and the sort order and the display, in this case it had the list versus grid type of display. So that’s a general approach I take just to familiarize myself with the way the actual physical layout is. I also did turn on the smart navigation which let me know a little bit more, although it’s not as relevant to the information but it did help me learn how the thing’s actually laid out physically. But that’s what I normally do. Of course I went in and typed a search term. What I didn’t expect, I guess, was how far you have to go down before you get to the details you want because I hit the papers, I hit Thomas Jefferson, I hit manuscripts, I hit the years, I don’t think I got down to the actual papers. I’m assuming I would get there eventually but I haven’t gotten there yet. And I was curious. I wanted to do that because I wanted to see whether that information would be actually images of his documents, since they would have been written with a pen, would they be something that has been entered into the computer so it would be electronically readable by me or would they just be images and I don’t know the answer to that yet.


(3 challenges you encountered?)

I don’t know that I ran into any real difficulties for me because I’m pretty familiar with how to—I have in my mind a system I’ve used for many years in looking at websites. Everything I did seemed to be pretty much accessible to me, except, like I said, I hadn’t gotten to the actual data yet, but that’s not the website’s issue. But I didn’t really run into a lot of challenges, although on first glance it does seem to go quite a ways before you get anywhere but that’s probably because that’s the way libraries work and once I was familiar with what I was doing I would know how to get past that. But it wasn’t particularly challenging. It seemed so far to be pretty accessible. I haven’t researched the questions you’ve given me to find out but that may shed more light on it.


(Identify DL features that were useful to get familiar?)

I did find it useful that they have headings. Some places don’t do that. Some places just use links. And links can be nice but I like that they have headings for the outline design of that. And I also like that the search is at the top because that’s usually what you want to do, especially once you get familiar with the site. The first thing you want to do is search for something. I did find it interesting though, and I don’t know what the idea is, is to why it comes up with search results before you actually put anything in, which looks like it’s alphabetized under something but I’m not sure why that is. That seems a little interesting to me. I’m not sure what the logic was there for that.


(Any feature that would make this process easier?)

I don’t know of anything that would really make it any better. Maybe the only thing I can think of, not sure if this may be the case, I didn’t look at this, but it looks like when you get to the bottom there’s different links like About and the places how you could follow them and so forth. One of the things I like, and I didn’t notice this, I didn’t actually check it to see, maybe it’s there, but I like to have areas that you can hit, in JAWS you hit with a semicolon and it takes you between blocks, like maybe on one side there’s a group of links that always stay there and you can hit those at any given time, and then maybe on the right side the information actually changes. I didn’t notice whether that’s in here or not, I didn’t try that. But that’s kind of handy because I like to be able to get to those. And I like, I think they’re called regions, and the semicolon takes you between them. I didn’t actually notice if they were there. I didn’t check. I should have but I didn’t.


Post-interview ends at 00:17:16


1.3. Task 1 begins at 00:18:34


<Opens Internet Explorer> I’m a Firefox user. I can’t remember the hot key to get the favorites. Is it Alt A? I used to use this all the time.

<Alt A. L. Enters LOC>


So what I did is Alt A. I hit L for a shortcut to get to LOC since I already knew that was there already.

<arrows down> I’m in the search field now. Paste Rosa Parks now.

<Paste> I think I did.

<Tabs. Wrap to top> [chime]

<Arrows down. Edit. Enters search box> [beep] <Pastes ‘Rosa Parks’> I thought it was open but it wasn’t. Hit the search button. See what we get. <Tab. Enter>


(Can I stop you for a moment? Could you tell me, I heard you use a cursor. Could you tell me what you were trying to do with the virtual cursor?)

Well, what it happened was when it first came in I thought I heard that it popped up and said, you know when forms mode comes on, and I pasted Rosa Parks but apparently I didn’t. And I went back to the virtual cursor. And then I hit E to get to the search field again and then I pressed Enter to make sure it was actually—I thought it had popped up but if it did it went away so when I popped it back up again then I searched Rosa Parks. And then I tabbed to search and now I’ve got information here.

(And every time you do the virtual cursor, you hear the speak. Can you explain what that means to you?)

[beep] Actually, the beep is your shift key. I don’t know why it does that. I mean for some reason it’s set to beep when you press it. I’m not sure why. That’s unique to your keyboard or some setting you’ve got here. I don’t know.

(That’s the first time I’m hearing it, even though I use it.)

Yeah, like if I do an Insert I or Shift lock I to read the link it beeps. [beep] Double tap it it turns it off but if you just do it once, I’m not sure why it beeps. I don’t know, that’s just the keyboard doing it.

<Headings> Now one thing I wish you could do, well, I geuss it’s okay, because I closed the browser, when I opened it up again I now had to go choose list again to display this information in a list, which I like. Now maybe there’s a way to change it so that you can save it. I don’t know. So that next time I come back I don’t have to do that. I don’t know. <Chooses List of combo box. Tab. Enter Go. Headings. Wrap to top> [chime] <Headings> Guess I won’t go there because there’s only one result. <Enters Rosa Parks Papers collection link>


<Headings. Arrows down. Enters Image link>


Try to answer one question. Must have happened, I know it’s in the 50s, I forget what year it is. <arrows down. Headings> Go here and see what it tells me. <Enters Montgomery bus boycott link>


<Headings. Wrap to top> [chime] <Edit> [beep] <Pastes text and adds ‘arrest’ to ‘Rosa Parks arrest’> I’m going to change my search parameter because Rosa Parks is a little too general. So I went and added arrest. <Tab. Enter>


Maybe now I’ll find it faster than I did. <Headings> Cut it half down anyway. <Arrows down. Enters newspaper result link>


See what newspaper will tell me.

<Headings. Arrows down> I find it interesting that they would have anything in that era when that’s Rosa Parks and she wasn’t born.

<Arrows down> Interesting, because this library is so full of stuff it’s actually harder than you might think.

<Arrows down> Yeah, okay.

<Frames> I was looking..what I was talking about earlier.

<Home. Enter. Home. Arrows down. Enters search edit box. Types text that isn’t visible in window. Virtual cursor. Edit> [beep] <Types ‘When was Rosa Parks arrested’. Tab. Enter>


See how good of a search engine this is. Sometimes I start a little bit too general. 1 of 813.

<Page loads. Headings. Arrows down. Enters view combo box> Every time I change the search it makes you go back and make you choose the choice again.

<Chooses List view. Tabs. Enters Sort by combo box. Chooses Date (oldest first). Tab. Enter Go button> Let’s try that since we’re looking for a date here. Let me sort it by dates if it comes up with something that I can actually…

<Headings> I don’t understand why it would have that old stuff. It’s interesting.

<Arrows down> I’m definitely go to the newspapers and see…

<Enter> I think this should be easy, I’m thinking this answer should have been an easy one. <

Virtual cursor. Internet Explorer error window pop up> Uh oh. You know what happened.

(Close this session.)

<Close program. Space to enter>

(I think you are very close to the time limits.)


(We can stop that one.)


Task 1 ends at 00:29:12


1.4. Task 1 post-interview begins at 00:29:40


(Approach adopted to search?)

It’s interesting because the approach I started with is kind of the way I do a Google search because I’ve found with Google, sometimes if I’m not really sure what I’m looking for, like with Rosa Parks, which is what I did, and I would have probably come up with….Google probably would have popped up an answer, I bet I might have found out faster, just because it might have popped up a newspaper or something, but as I discovered that doesn’t work this being a library website contains a lot of information in various formats and so forth, and so I discovered, even when I typed in ‘when was Rosa Parks arrested?’, which if I did that in Google, I could probably find it right now, but even when I did that it was still layers away from getting there. I’ve never really searched a website like that before. It’s actually very interesting. It makes me want to try it more just because I can see that there are lots of layers of things, and obviously Google doesn’t give you everything but I could have probably found the answer to that question. Now maybe if I was doing more in depth research on Rosa Parks and wanted to read her own writings or things that would be different but I thought that would be easy. And the other ones now, I’m thinking, shoot, because I know when the San Francisco earthquake, at least if it’s the one I’m thinking of, there were a couple of them, so I know when that one, at least one of them was. So that was my approach, was to start that way. And I discovered that it doesn’t quite work the same way for me so I’ll have to learn that.


(Identify 3 challenges.)

One, I just noticed that it doesn’t, when you go back and change the search parameters, some of the things revert, like the display reverts, I had it set to list and it went back to grid, and you had to change it again. I don’t know why they do that every time you change the search results. At least when I did it it did. I’m assuming it always does that. And that was one. The other thing I guess was a challenge to me was just discovering, trying to get to the actual material because there’s a lot of headings, they weren’t always very clear, like it says ‘a part of’ is a heading, well, a part of you have to go down and read the rest of those things to know what they are. And that’s a little bit confusing to me, although I kind of get what they’re doing but I was a little bit confused about that. That was two things. I would say, like I said, the third thing was, of course I never quite got down to the material so I don’t know how it’s going to be displayed for me and if it’ll be something I can read or now. So that I don’t know.


(Was your experience coming up with search terms challenging?)

A little more than I thought it would be because I copied Rosa Parks out of the original document, pasted it in there, and thought I should be able to come up with a result, but what I really got was here’s things that might have that information in it. And of course Rosa Parks is a big topic, I think it had 5,000 some odd references to start with. And that’s pretty wide. You don’t want to look at all of those so then that’s when I went back and changed it to Rosa Parks arrest, which took us down to, I don’t know, 2,000 odd, and I thought that’s a bit much, so I changed it to ‘when was Rosa Parks arrested’ and that took us down to 830 or so which is still a lot. But even when I hit newspapers I still never found the actual information I wanted. That was the part that was bugging me. I don’t know if that’s just because the way I’m not used to doing deep research like that. They have to put it in that hierarchy so they can have everything cross-referenced, I’m not sure. But that was the challenge for me.


(Any DL features used and useful?)

I don’t think I was very successful because I didn’t get the answers to the questions but I guess the one thing that I used in the website part of it was the fact that I could, again, once I would do a search or refine it, I’d go back to the headings because some of the headings were the same and some of them changed and my goal was to go through the headings and see where the change happened and what the new information was. But I didn’t quite get where I was going but that’s probably lack of familiarity with the website too. I mean, I might eventually learn what that means, some of the terminology is a little different. But I think, from what I could see, short of getting down to the actual data, I’m assuming it’s actually there eventually, you can actually find a newspaper article if you want to. I’m assuming—I don’t know for sure how much of it is actual text or not which is what I’d really like to know. Hopefully I’ll find some of that in the process of continuing this.


(Suggest some features that weren’t present that would make process easier?)

The one thing that stands out in my mind that I would like to see, is something that would give me quick answers. When I type in a question like, when was Rosa Parks arrested, I mean, that’s a pretty clear question. And assuming the logic that’s in the search engine is good enough, it should at least pop up a reference or two that I could go right to that would answer that question. That’s what I’d like to see. I’d bet that would happen with Google. I realize Google’s not a library but there are times when all you want to know is that. You don’t want to know—it’s a little bit like asking Sirie a question. You know, here’s a website, I don’t want a website. When did this happen or whatever. It would be nice to have that information for specific questions someplace where you could get a specific answer because you could always go and research more of it but it’d be nice if that’s all you want to know. But it doesn’t look like there’s a way to do that, that I could see anyway.


Task 1 post-interview ends at 00:38:55


1.5. Task 2 begins at 00:40:11


<Enters to open Internet Explorer. Favorites. LOC>


<Edit> [beep] Going to go to the search box here. Going to type in 1906.

<Types ‘1906 San Fransisco Earth quake’. Tab. Enter>


Type in 1906 San Francisco earthquake and we’ll see what we come up with. <Headings> Oh, I wonder if I misspelled it. Maybe I did.

<Edit> [beep] <Checks spelling. Tab. Enter search button>


<Headings> Alright. <Edit> [beep] <Deletes 1906 from text. Tab. Enter>


I typed in 1906 and maybe that was wrong so…

<Headings> Okay. <Edit> [beep] <Checks spelling. Changes text to ‘San Fransisco Earthquake. Tab. Enter>


<Headings. Alt Tab to instructions> Okay, this is weird.

(Just to clarify, this task does not require you to go into any item. You just have to find these items but you have to find to find multiple items in different formats or in different aspects.)

The problem I had is I typed in San Francisco earthquake and I got no results. I’m not sure if I’m spelling it wrong or what.

(Oh, ok. Alright.)

I typed in 1906 to start with.

<Alt Tab to DL. Headings. Wrap to top. [chime] <Edit> [beep] <Checks spelling> Let’s try it this way. I think I misspelled San Francisco. Put an s instead of a … <Types ‘1906 San Francisco Earthquake’. Tab. Enter>


Let’s see what comes up here now. <Headings> Oh, here we go. <Headings. Arrows down> I found stereographs. Do I need to copy anything or just tell you what I found. (As long as you know what you have found, that’s good.)

So I found stereographs, which I assume are some kinds of pictures.

<Arrows down> Early films. 26 films.

<Arrows down> I found motion pictures. I found pictures. I found government documents. These are different kinds of pictures. Albumin prints, I’m not sure what that is.

<Arrows down. Back to top. Edit> [beep] <Types ‘1906 San Francisco Earthquake eye wittness reports’. Tab. Enter>


See what else. I’ve so far found films, pictures, articles…

<Headings. Wrap to top.> [chime] <Edit> [beep]

(If you have found 3 different formats then that should suffice, as long as you are sure that this is about the great fire.)

yeah, 1906 fire. Yup.

(That means your task is accomplished.)


Task 2 ends at 00:46:22


1.6. Task 2 post-interview begins at 00:46:28


(What approach did you follow?)

I learned some things from the first one so I was a little more specific on my search. The fact is that I also had some prior knowledge because the question talked about the one in the early 1900s, I knew it was 1906 because I remember that, so I typed in 1906 to narrow it down to as narrow as I could get it. And then since it was just to look for different types of formats I didn’t go a lot deeper than that but I did discover that they had 8,000 stereographic pictures, they had albumen prints, which is some kind of picture, I guess. There were books, there were articles. I tried also to see if I could get—I typed in 1906 San Francisco earthquake eye witness reports but didn’t get anything back from that.

(What was the goal behind that?)

To see if there might be some journals maybe or maybe there was some newspaper articles with specific eye witness reports in it or maybe someone had written a book or article describing their experiences is what I was trying to do. When I do research like this of any kind, I try to find the original documents as much as I can, so to start from there is what my goal is.


(Any challenges? Top 3?)

Maybe there wasn’t as much of a challenge because it didn’t require as much information this time. My main challenge is I don’t know exactly, for example, a stereographic I know is a kind of picture but I don’t know what that is, I don’t know what an albumen print is either. But that’s something I’d have to research. That’s not the problem of the library, that’s a problem of my knowledge. I didn’t find any challenges in that regard because we weren’t looking for specific information.


(Identify features you used and were they useful?)

In this case I did not change the display because I was only looking for this specific thing. I didn’t do that. I left the sort the same and that sort of stuff so I didn’t really change that. There was nothing I really had a problem with or that I would really change here. It would be nice if there was sort of a quick answer thing if you could get that.


(What kind of features would you like to see on this website?) This may be a lack of knowledge on my part, but I would like to be able to—and I didn’t try this, maybe I’ll do it next time—but one thing that would be useful, this goes back to your first question originally, there probably should be something someplace on this website where I could go to get an introduction on how to use it because one of the things that just occurred to me, if I wanted to find pictures, for example, or let’s say I wanted to find—going back to Rosa Parks—when I want to find something on a singer on YouTube, I will type the singers name YouTube, which will then find me recordings on YouTube of that singer. Well, I didn’t try that here but I don’t know if you can use ANDs ORs, that sort of thing. And I didn’t think to try it but there didn’t appear to be anywhere that said, there’s no place to say how to use this site.

(Something like a help–)

Something like a little tutorial on how to—because there may be search terms and search methods I don’t know. And I didn’t try those because of the time constraint but I’ve learned that on some search engines you can do ANDs and ORs and excluding this and that, and I didn’t think to try that, but that would be helpful because I suspect if you get using this a lot there’s probably a lot of that. I’ll bet it’s available somewhere.


Task 2 post-interview ends at 00:51:29


Digital Library II

2.1. Exploration begins at 01:28:50

<Enters Internet Explorer to open. Favorites. Enters HathiTrust>


<Virtual cursor> [beep]

<Arrows down. Frames>

(And can you continue talking?)

What I’m doing is I’m just familiarizing myself again with the elements on this page, headings, in this case regions, navigation main, content region, and the links. That sort of thing. Just to see what’s here. And here’s the…what I was hoping is that is a help thing but it’s not. I thought that was going to tell me some things I could do.

<Arrows down> What is this? Is this a university thing or website?

(Go down.)

<Arrows down> I was thinking, there’s a help there. There’s an about. Is that going to answer my question?

(No, what is this site is stated below. Where do you..)

I’m looking at the headings here. <Headings. Edit> [beep] <Types ‘Wizard of OZ’. Enter>


<Headings> See they have search tips which is kind of nice. I didn’t see that on the other site. Maybe that tells you…<Enters search tips link> See what it tells me here.


<Headings. Arrows down. Reads text> Good to live in America, isn’t it.

<Reads text> It’s interesting because this didn’t answer my question. <Headings. Arrows down Miscellaneous section. Headings. Edit> [beep]

(Can I interrupt you for a second? Can I ask what specifically are you looking for here?) Well, there was a thing, and I’m going to go back to the thing– <Back>


Because one of the things was search tips—

(You had gone into the search tips, right?)

Yeah, and I thought this will tell me I can use ands, ors and that sort of thing. It didn’t tell me that. It told me things I could search, like what books I could have and not.

(So once you were there, what did you first come across?)

I’d have to go back to it and see now. But it was mostly telling me what years one could find, could you search certain kinds of volumes, could you edit them, that sort of thing. What I wanted to know was using the search field. That was what I was trying to find out. Was are there things, and I can try that because a lot of these search engines use it. But I can because I know that exists although some may not. And so although I didn’t think to try it last time on the other one but I could do it on this and I might. But…<Regions. Wrap to top> [chime] I was trying to see…<Arrows down. Headings. Arrows down> That’s interesting. <Arrows down results> I was going to see if I could open this. <Enters Full view result link>


Trying to get full view seeing as how this is before 1923. <Headings. Arrows down. Enter text only view link>


<Headings. Arrows down>

(Can you keep talking?)

Oh, sorry, I’m just going down here to see if I can get to the beginning of the page because it’s a public domain book. Here we go.

<Arrows down> This is table of contents. I’m going to jump to that. I’m trying to get to the actual book here.

<Enters section 1 page link. Headings> I was hoping I’d get to the actual book.

<Arrows down> See, I was hoping I’d get to the actual text of the book but so far I haven’t.

<Arrows down> Why don’t I go to page 227, see if I can get to some text of the book. <Enters section link. Arrows down> Wouldn’t you know.

<Enters next page link> Go to next page.

<Headings. Enters page link> Go to next page. <Arrows down> Oh, there we go. Okay, so I actually got the information this time. I actually got to a book. I did that because I know it’s in public domain now.

(Okay, we just ran out of time.)


Exploration ends at 01:37:02


2.2. Post-interview begins at 01:37:09


(Approach to get familiar?)

Again, I did the same kind of thing I did the first time. I looked at the elements- headings, links, regions, and such, and I did think since I hadn’t thought of it before, I specifically looked for something telling me how to search, which I did not find because the search tips did not answer the question I was looking for, which was how does the search work using different arguments, different logical operators and things, which it didn’t tell me. I don’t know if you can do that. And then I also tried this time to see how fast I could get to actual information, which I did get to finding a book in there. This website seems a little more familiar. A little more like Gutenberg and some of the other ones. You can get to information. It may not be as researchable as the other is but I was able to get to where I was looking to go faster.



Not really yet. I was able—one thing I noticed I had, which was something that wasn’t on the other one and maybe isn’t necessary, it had a jump to main content link, which I only learned a while ago are not always visible. Those are links that only screen readers see. I didn’t use it but if I had hit that link it would have probably taken me probably to the main area, which is kind of nice to have. The Library of Congress one, I never saw that one. I don’t know that they had one. This one seemed to also have regions, which main content, navigation, that sort of thing, was kind of nice. But I don’t know any real, at this point, real issues with it. It seems pretty straightforward.


(What features of the DL did you use and were they useful?)

As far as familiarizing myself with it, the regions were helpful, and although I didn’t use it, I did see the jump to main navigation link, which I don’t usually use those but they’re nice to have around in case you do want to use them. This site seems a little less cluttered, if you will, seems a little more straightforward to me than the other one. But I haven’t done the search yet either.


(Anything else you’d like to see on this site?)

Not at this point I can’t. The reason is, one of the things I didn’t do, I saw it, but didn’t go there, I did see the help link, but I didn’t go there. But I didn’t go there because I wanted to see if I could use the search and find something but I’m not sure what is under that. So that may have some of the information or frequently asked questions that I didn’t get to.


Post-interview ends at 01:41:10


2.3. Task 1 begins at 01:42:23

<Enters Internet Explorer to open. Favorites. HathiTrust. Enter>


<Headings. Edit> [beep] <Types ‘employment of the blind in early 1900s’. Tab. Enter>



(And what are you doing?)

I’m just looking to see if there’s results and looking at my headings, and I was looking for search results, which I just found. <Headings. Arrows down> I’m looking to see…okay. That’s probably too many to look at at this time.

<Headings> Okay, I’m looking to see these pages here. There are a lot of pages available with…

<Wrap to top> [chime] <Regions> Oh, there’s only 1 region now.

<Arrows down> See, I don’t know why that’s up here because it doesn’t seem to answer my question. May have something. <Arrows down> I don’t know why this information is up here because I didn’t search for that and I don’t know how it’s possible unless, the one thing I don’t know about this search engine is that is it looking for every word or…I probably should put them in quotes because it may be looking for every word individually which is probably what’s happening. I suspect that may be it. <Edit> [beep] I’m just gonna put some quotes around this.

<Types “employment of the blind in the early 1900s”> I’m just putting this statement…in quotes. Let’s see. <Tab. Enter>


I suspect it may be looking for every possible…every possible thing with those words. <Headings. Wrap to top> [chime] <Skip to search results link> Well, that’s good. It said zero hits. (At least it worked.) I did work. Yeah. Although…

<Edit> [beep] Let’s try this. I’ll change my search to agencies. <Types “agencies serving the blind in the early 1900s”. Tab. Enter>


I’ll try it this way. See if I get a result. I’m going to try something. Do a Shift H here. <Shift H> I thought maybe I could go…

<Links> What’s interesting is, it says same text link somewhere on here it says skip to search results. Now, I hit that before but it doesn’t show up as visited, which if I could have hit V to go to that link…

<Skip to results link. Edit> [beep] <Types “employment of the blind”. Tab. Enter>


I’m not sure if this quotes works or if I’m just not using it correctly. See if it actually comes up as something because neither of those categories came up with anything. <Headings> Okay. That apparently worked.

<Arrows down. Tab. Arrows down> I’m just down arrowing now because I don’t want to miss anything. But what I’m going to do…

<wrap to top> [chime] <Edit> [beep] <Edits text to “employment of the blind in 1900”. Tab. Enter>


Let me see if I can narrow it down this way. <Headings> Okay, so it doesn’t like that. <Edit> [beep] Nothing specific about the 1900s. <Types “employment of the blind in early 20th century”. Tab. Enter>


<Headings. Wrap to top> [chime] <Edit> [beep] So clearly it’s not going to do it this way. <Changes text to “employment of the blind”. Tab. Enter>


I’m going to go back to this one. See if I can come up with anything from this. <Headings. Tab. Arrows down. Wrap to top> [chime] <Regions. Arrows down results. Enter result link>


<Arrows down. Enters Text Only link> Go to text only and see if I can find out something here.

<Headings. Arrows down> It’s funny. The Table of Contents isn’t very helpful.


Because it just says section1, section 2, it doesn’t tell me—maybe that’s what they are but I noticed in Wizard of Oz they didn’t have the chapter titles, it was just sections. So… <Arrows down> So I don’t know whether that’s the way to find the information I want to find. So what I guess I’ll do…<Arrows down. Enters Next page link>


I suspect those are probably preliminary pages. <Headings>

(You have 2 more minutes. This is not a test.)

I understand.

<Headings. Arrows down>

(Isn’t that helpful?)

It’s funny, it says page so it must be numeral 3, whatever that is. But I thought this was full text view so I’m confused. <Enters Next page link>


<Headings. Arrows down> This is German. <Arrows down. Reads text.

(Okay, time. Maybe one more.)

I did find some information. They have a hospital where they go that helps to get them ready for employment, such as basket weaving and such. It helps them get well enough so they can go do that. There’s an institute where they actually do the training since they want information on agency.

(Are these US organizations?)

This sounds German to me. Stuttgart, although it did say US, didn’t it? <Alt Tabs to instructions. Reads text> Ooh, blind Americans, sorry. Yes, it did. <Alt Tab to DL> Guess that didn’t get us there, did it.

(But you got to something.)

I did, yes.


Task 1 ends at 01:56:10


2.4. Task 1 post-interview begins at 01:56:16

(What approach did you use?)

The first thing I did was, again, type in employment of the blind in the 1900s and I came up with basically a thousand pieces of useless information because I think what happened was the search engine was looking for each of those individual words in every document, which that’s why it came up with language in Vietnam and this and that, which had nothing to do with what I wanted. So then I decided I would use the quotes which tells the search engine generally, look for these words exactly the way I type them in. And several of my searches didn’t do me any good there. I finally got a little more general. Employment of the blind, it came up with results, which for some reason got us German before American, which I don’t know how that, might just be the title of the book maybe the way it’s organized it just shows up that way. So that was an approach I took this time to try a little bit more refining of the search engine.


(What were some challenges?)

Again, the first challenge was getting way too much information. The second challenge was trying to figure out—I mean, I got a lot of zero results so trying to find some combination that would give me anything to use, which I had to get fairly general to do that. That was a challenge. Then also, for whatever reason, I went to the full text text only, which I assume is where I need to be and some of the pages I got didn’t make any sense. I don’t know why.

(Like the one that says this is an image?)

No, but what it said was—that was in the Wizard of Oz, it said this page contains an image, that was fine, but in this search, the first thing I came to in roman numeral 3, it was like 00. Blah blah blah and it was just garbage. Before we got to the pages that let me realize that we were talking about what was happening in Germany, but those few pages, I don’t know what was supposed to be on them, but if that’s text only, that’s useless text and I don’t know what it should have been.


(Any features you used and were useful?)

To refine my search? I put quotes around things which eliminated large quantities of information I don’t want and then I had to make my search a little less specific, like I think I finally just used employment of the blind instead of employment of the blind in the 1900s. If you put 1900s for some reason it didn’t seem to find anything. I did put employment of the blind in early 20th century and it came up with some things but, again, the first thing it came up with was the German document, which was interesting but not what I was looking for.


(What features would you like to see?)

I’m not sure. I don’t know of anything specific that I can think of.


Task 1 post-interview ends at 02:00:59


2.5. Task 2 begins at 02:02:38

<Enters Internet Explorer to open. Favorites. HathiTrust>


Okay, I’m going to the HathiTrust. And I’m going to go to the search field. <Edit> [beep] And I’m going to paste in my fairy tales. <Types ‘fairy tales’. Tab. Enter>


See what fairy tales comes up with. See how that helps me. Maybe I’ll find..and see what we come up with for fairy tales.

<Headings> 542,915 items. <

Arrows down> Take a look and see what was over a million items here.

<Headings. Links. Arrows down results> A book.

<Arrows down. Headings. Arrows down results> Okay, looks like I’m going to have to make some more specific items here because so far I found books, I have found indexes, but I have to find…books, I mean pictures or anything like that.

<Arrows down results> So let me…let me go up and just see…of different countries. I’ve found different countries. Romania. I did find Romania.

<Arrows down results> These are Romanian. Grimms. Grimms fairy tales. Hans Christian Anderson. Those are Danish. Hans Christian Anderson are Danish. Romanian. Celtic fairy tales. I think I saw Irish. I found three countries. Now the thing is I haven’t found—these are all books. I haven’t found yet other types, other formats yet. But I did find Celtic Irish, Romanian and Danish, because I found Hans Christian Anderson and the Queen of Romania and other things. But I probably have to put something in my search engine to find—because there are 1 million some odd results here, each of them displayed 25 at a time, it’ll take me longer than 10 minutes to get through all those. So I suspect I’ll have to do that. But I did find 3 or 4 different countries worth of fairy tales but they’re all collections, they’re books, not another format.

(So then the question asks, take a look at the question one more time.)

<Alt Tab to instructions>

(Just do an aspect of the topic.)

Well, I did find some indexes. Is that an aspect? An index I assume is a collection telling you what there is.

<Alt Tab to DL. Headings. Arrows down> 1915. That would fit the category as well. Or the timeframe. These are collections. I’m not sure.

<Wrap to top> [chime] <Edit> [beep] I wonder if I put…how about… <Types ‘history of fairy tales’. Tab. Enter>


See what happens just for the sheer joy of it.

<Headings> That’s interesting. That would be a catalog, it seems like. Is that different than a book, would you say?


That is different than actual fairy tales.

(I would say, it is not a different format but different aspect.)

Yeah, because I’m not sure..I didn’t put in maybe film or I don’t know if this library contains things like that.

(It says these are collections. You can’t tell which one. So you have to go into it.)


(But I think this goal is accomplished and so there is no need unless you want to.)


(There’s no need to go deeper. I just have to tell you. So the mission was accomplished.)


Task 2 ends at 02:11:04


2.6. Task 2 post-interview begins at 02:11:04

(Approach used)

The first thing I did was just put the word fairy tales into the search engine, knowing I’d get a ton but I figured that would help me and that was really the main thing I did because it came up with over a million results and when I got looking at the first choices it gave me collections of stories and they were from different parts of the world, Denmark, Romania, Celtic, Irish, so that gave me the 3 parts of the world. Then I decided to put in history of fairy tales. I did that to see if I could come up with some other aspect and that’s when I got the catalogs and indexes and things, which is a little different, although there’s still books there. They don’t appear to be the actual fairy tale, they appear to be catalogs where you could look up fairy tales if you wanted to. I did not try and go look up video or anything like that. I don’t know if this library has that or not. I didn’t try that.


(Did you see a feature that let’s you select items in a certain format?)

No, I didn’t see any of that. I did see full view and I saw catalog. I never saw anything that indicated to me that there were anything..but this appeared to be—it wasn’t obvious whether there was material in other formats or not.

(Do you mind if we go back to that HathiTrust and see?)

<Alt Tab to HathiTrust homepage. Headings> It just says books online. It’s describing digital text here. I’m just looking at the Twitter feed, apparently. <JAWS Find. Types audio> The word audio doesn’t appear there so I just wanted to see. How about if I try formats. <JAWS Find. Types format> Even the word formats doesn’t appear here. It’s not obvious, if there is, it’s not obvious.


(I noticed you used fewer search terms in this one than the previous task. Any reason?)

I would say yes because I assumed fairy tales are from all around, there are fairy tales from everywhere, I thought if I put that in I would probably run across, as I did, a number of things. Then of course I don’t know—ironically the first thing I searched for on here just to test it was the Wizard of Oz, which is an American fairy tale, but I did it that way just because I thought I figured I’ll start there because I wasn’t quite sure if I could put fairy tales or what, I thought I’ll put that in first and what happens sometimes when I do that is when I look at the results I think, oh now I will add this or that search term so I can narrow it, but I didn’t really have to after doing that. That’s why I did it that way. And the other question was a little more specific so I was trying to narrow the results a little more.


(Identify 3 challenges?)

Actually, not really any difficulties. This website was pretty straightforward. I didn’t really find any specific difficulties with it. It’s like anything, if I used it all the time I’m sure I would develop understanding as to how to go to certain places but I didn’t have a big problem going around it.

(One thing I heard you “complain” was that all the result items were in the same format, the book or whatever. You said I don’t see videos or pictures.)

Right because I was thinking of other formats. And I was just pointing out that I didn’t see any and I don’t know whether they exist. It looks like they may not because there’s no indication that I could find and even in it’s title it says millions of books online. It doesn’t say books and other items. One thing I did notice, and this is maybe, I don’t know if this is a coding issue, but the go to search results link, even if you hit it once and you go back to it doesn’t show visited so you can’t find it again by hitting the V. And I’m not sure why that is. Sometimes links don’t change to visited. I don’t know what makes that change. It might be a coding issue or maybe same page links don’t do that. I don’t know.


(Any features you used?)

This goes back a little bit maybe to…maybe this is an answer to this question or the last question, I remember when I did go to a specific place the titles, the table of contents was not, they didn’t have chapter titles. And that was even in the Wizard of Oz, which I know have chapter titles. I read the book so I now they have chapter titles.

(Titles were not displayed.)

Yeah, it just said section 1, section 2, section 3, which is kind of useless. Unless you know where you’re going. Some books of course don’t have chapter titles but if they do I don’t know why they wouldn’t be listed that way.

(That would be a more appropriate response to the previous question. Any feature you used in the DL in trying to overcome that or another challenge?)

What I did do, again, I also noticed this website has the liberal use of headings, which is nice, because you can jump to your results, search results, you can jump there by going headings and now having to go….I did use the down arrow sometimes to look at specific things but I prefer not to do that unless I have to because sometimes there’s so much information you don’t want to have to do that. And one thing I didn’t do, which I don’t do an awful lot, but there is a way to collect like a links list, Insert F7, I think it’s Insert..I forget if it’s Insert F8, one of them collects the headings. But I can’t remember because I don’t use it very often. But that might have been useful for me to do although I did not do that just because I’ve kind of gotten out of the habit of doing that. I typically access a webpage the way it is rather than do those collections like that. That’s just the way I do it.


(Desired features?)


So far I don’t really know of anything different. I mean, it found what I wanted. And since I didn’t open those last ones I don’t know whether they were going to display as well as the Wizard of Oz did but then the one, with the German, that was the other website, was that this website? I was thinking of for the employment one but some of the display things there were not really text. At least if they were I couldn’t tell you what they were.


Task 2 post-interview ends at 02:22:00